[The subjugating of animals in human history] was closely follower by the subjugation of women by men, because as much as men and women are equal in terms of their cognitive capacity, men are physically more able then women, so they were able to overpower women if they wanted to. Then the darker sides of humanity were able to manifest themselves, if they’re able to manifest themselves, when these men would have subjugated women. Why wouldn’t you if you could? Without a moral system, without a value system to tell you otherwise, you would, you would allow those dark, dark sides of your humanity to do that, to subjugate a weaker class of people, or a weaker group of people. So they probably did overpower women, they subjugated women in order to have sex with them, have children, make them look after the children, make them do all the housework, all these horrible things. Around that same time in societies food surpluses happened and some people were more intelligent than others and they would delegate tasks to other people and tell them what to do and they became the leading class, the bourgeoisie, probably because they had the gumption, maybe they had the intelligence as well, to do that delegation, so they became the kind of upper echelons. With that kind of power, if you’ve got that dark side in you, that dark side of humanity, if you’ve got that power over a large group of people why wouldn’t you use it? If you’ve not got a value system? If you don’t have a code of morality to tell you otherwise, then you would. You would just allow yourself to subjugate a group of people, poor people. I think around that time, personally, I think that religion was a response to that. It was well-meaning codification of values and morals that came about to actually teach people to not behave like that anymore, because I think as humans we might have those dark manifestations of our behaviour, but we also have the capacity to look at those behaviours and think and be horrified by them and shocked by them. I think that’s what lead to the initial need, the initial derivations of religion and the fact that we celebrate the prophets, it was probably just one person that stood up and said “I don’t want to see this anymore, I don’t want to do this anymore, I want a better world”, and then they wrote a book. And that book spread, the message got spread. So the reason I’m not giving up with religion is that, is I feel like there was a good-intention behind it to begin with, but it came of a time that was much more chaotic and evil than nowadays. People talk with rose-tinted spectacles about the past, but actually the past was horrible, even the recent past was really, really horrible, so I don’t know why they think that this world isn’t better, this present day isn’t better. It’s much better. We actually do have less poverty in this world than previous generations as well! But the reason I’m not willing to give up just yet on religion is because yes it had a good intention to begin with, and I think that there is room, there is scope, for doing away with the negatives that you don’t like, that you don’t think are right.